people just going about their job. >> i learned how easily we can morph back into 2012 politics and still be good buddies. >> the romney health care plan, really, is that -- >> if it's too early, it's time for "morning joe," but right now "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. >> the mideast mess. with serious charges of chemical weapons used in syria and violence on the streets of cairo, is the obama administration running out of options to have some influence in the region? more revelations from the national security agency about just how much information they gobbled up. and why even the judges approving it started to raise eyebrows. plus, it's pack mania. find out why all of these leading lawmakers have in common. with an ever growing list of colleagues, they're rewriting the way that politics is played and possibly destroying the whole function of what political parties do anymore. good morning from washington. it's thursday, august 22nd,

2013. this is "the daily rundown." i'm chuck todd. my first reads of the morning. is the arab spring officially coming to an end? did the auto kraatz and dictators win? may sound like a drastic conclusion. let's look at the facts as they are today. an egyptian court has ordered the release of former strongman hosni mubarak whose toppling 2 1/2 years ago perhaps the number one signal of the arab spring. mohamed morsi, egypt's first democratically elected leader, is spending his 51st day under house arrest. images consistent with a massive chemical attack are pouring out of syria. these are some of the least graphic pictures that we're showing. but they are still disturbing to watch. the syrian opposition claims president assad's government unleashed a barrage of surface to surface rockets filled with poison gas on at least ten villages outside damascus on wednesday. if verified, it would be a chemical attack on a scale the world has not seen since 1988

when saddam hussein gassed thousands of iraqi kurds. rebels say about a third of the dead are children. nbc news has not verified the images. the syrian government deny using chemical weapons altogether. it's been two years since president obama first called for assad to go. saying the type has come for president assad to step aside. it's been a year since he warned syria that there would be consequences for using chemical weapons. >> we have communicated in no uncertain terms with every player in the region that that's a red line for us. and that there would be enormous consequences if we start seeing movement on the chemical weapons front or the use of chemical weapons. >> those consequences have not materialized so far. and the president's critics on syria are getting louder. >> where does this stop? when does the united states, with very little cost, stand up

for these people? and when the president of the united states says that if he uses these weapons, that it would be a, quote, red line, and a game changer, he now sees that as a green light. the word of the the president of the united states can no longer be taken seriously, as it isn't throughout the entire region. >> on wednesday, the white house rolled out a revamp foreign policy website. it was filled with aspirational quotes that only underline a stark contrast between what the president promised in the middle east and his policy now. in the most forward leaning remark, he made during the height of the arab spring. at the state department in may of 2011. quote, we have the chance to show america values the dignity of the street vendor in tunisia more than the raw power of the dictator. there must be no doubt that the united states of america welcomes change that advances self-determination and opportunity. of course he continued in that speech, saying this -- >> after decades of accepting the world as it is in the

region, we have a chance to pursue the world as it should be. >> the soaring rhetoric then is in sharp contrast to today's situation. here's the problem for the president. while there's general agreement there's a washington paralysis on what to do in both egypt and syria, there's no consensus about what actually to do. that's because there are no good options. to you side with the muslim brotherhood? do you side with the syrian rebels which include a lot of al qaeda elements? do you side with assad? the chairman of the joint chiefs has told congress in a written letter while the pentagon could intervene with forces in syria, there are no moderate rebel groups ready to fill the power vacuum. there's also the contradiction of the president himself. though he was aspirationally a small deed democratic values guy when he ran for president, he dropped every hint an obama foreign policy would offer a return to the bush 41 model of stability first. a time when the president was prepared to deal with assad. appointed the first ambassador to syria in five years.

supporting mubarak with the definition of stability first. what makes the middle east muddle more challenging for the united states, our number one ally in the region israel has always been stability first. it's why they're quietly cheering on the interim egyptian government. and why they might really deal with the devil they know in assad then the devil they don't. all of this explains why there's no consensus on the right or left about the right approach to take. so joining me now are two guys who know a lot about this. former indiana republican senator richard lugar. he served for decades on the senate foreign relations committee. including six year, as chairman. we're joined by his senate colleague from maine, william cohen, who served as secretary of defense under president clinton. where do you start? senator lugar, the president's word, how much does it matter? he set this red line. he talked about assad having to go. there's now -- it seems the entire world believes that chemical weapons have been used. other than right now we haven't fully verified it.

what does the president do now? >> well, first of all, the president really is going to need finally to deal with congress on these issues. it's well as good for the president to set a red line. if that means going to war, if it means allocating -- >> you think that means going to war? when you set a red line like that and assad does a massive thing that he does, this is war? >> essentially, the president said enormous consequences, whatever this may mean. we've got to begin to outline precisely what's involved. general dempsey is correct. when we begin talking about the use of military force or, in fact, trying to help any of the forces, as you've just illustra illustrated, this is very dangerous, because we may be aiding people who are going to use the arms against each other and us and our allies. in otherrd wou words, there's nn good analysis of this. i'm getting back to the fact we

got into the libyan situation with the president saying we don't need a declaration of war. we don't even need the war powers act to have applicability. we're beyond the point where we used to at least have a consultation process in which the american people were hurt. and they'll have to be heard here. because the consequences of our taking action, either in syria or egypt are expensive. in terms of money, in terps teerms of lives. this is the subject in which the american people need to be heard. >> secretary cohen, what is the line here? i sort of -- i empathize with the sort of contradiction on stability versus democratic values. in egypt and syria, where is the president? which rhetoric does he need to stand by? >> it's a conflict between our ideals and our interests. at this point point, our interests are pretty clear in terms of the security of israel. and the entire security of the region beyond syria and egypt as

it is now. you raise the issue of the president's credibility. you never want to draw a red line. if you don't intend to take action to enforce it. i think we've done that twice. i think we've done it twice by saying assad has to go. we've done little to help remove him as such. and participate in that aggressively. secondly, once drawing the line about chemical weapons. if you make a threat and you don't carry it through, you lose credibility. how does that affect us? it affects us in terms of what's taking place in iran. to the extend that we keep saying that if he crosses, iran crosses a red line, that will result in serious consequences. well now we have to see what the serious consequences mean in syria. does it have any applicability to iran. in terms of the u.s. interests, our interest is obviously israel. our interest is making sure egypt honors the treaty it has with israel, et cetera. so it's not easy but i think we have to have -- pursue our interests in the short term.

hoping we can see an empl lucvo to a more democratic system. in the meantime, we'll come down to the side of the egyptian military ver dosus that of -- >> senator, does the u.s. have -- you think about it, and everybody else in the world looks at what's going on in egypt and says, oh, that was a coup. everybody else in the world look, at what's going on in syria and says this is a brutal crackdown. and the united states is saying, well, we got to wait and see what's going on in syria. we haven't decided it's a coup. is that a mistake? >> well, the mistake comes, as we've already been outlining, having red lines or saying -- >> that was a mistake in the first place? you think the whole red line business was a mistake? >> i do. if a coup occurs, military aid stops, once again is a red line in sorts. we have to have the ability to explore our own interests. which i think as bill cohen has said, in this particular case will be probably to bring about

some stability in egypt. some stability in the sanaa. some stability with israel. for that meratter, the saudis, o are backing this, because they feel we threw mubarak under the bus to begin with and are not about to be thrown under along with him. we have to think about these consequences. my own view i suppose is the egyptians do respect the fact that they want our particular weapons. they want the maintenance of that. there is the possibility, therefore, for us to have access. the question is, does access mean influence? perhaps. 17 calls between chuck hagel and -- >> doesn't get much. >> well, nevertheless, they stayed on the line to receive 17 messages back and forth, maybe even more as we're speaking today. >> the russians have come down clearly on the side of assad. you can't help but wonder, are they practicing their own version of the golden rule, do

unto other autocrats. how should the united states treat the russians? as they watered down a resolution apparently last night. >> it's clear russia is not going to make a major contribution to resolving the situation in syria. i think all of the effort to try to persuade them to intervene, you cease the supply of military weapons. has gone for naught. it's pretty clear the russians intend to sustain assad and do whatever it will take to do that. that will certainly chill our relationship even further with the russians. it will put the russians on the outside of the international community once again. if they, in fact, find chemical weapons have been used to kill 100 or 1,000 people. and the russians object to any action being taken by the u.n. that will put the russians again on the outside. >> senator, do you think there needs to be a coalition the united states has to build, sort of willing -- since the sun not going to be the place to do

this, to prepare some sort of military response to syria and assad now? >> perhaps. a year ago, when i was in moscow, i supported publicly that russia and the united states draw up a plan for the capture of the chemical weapons in syria. we've had a lot of experience -- >> were the russians at all interested in that? >> i don't know. i don't know. i hope that they might be. what i'm saying is the russians have a stake in this too. those chemical weapons are much closer to russia than they are to the united states. and russians may have an interest in the geneva parlay if we're able to get together something to talk about syria. in other words, i would not drop the ball altogether in making suggestions. i agree with bill for the moment the russians really are not being very helpful. >> it's military intervention now inevitable in syria, given what the president's done twice now, his own credibility, this message this sends the world? >> if you take the chemical weapons issue out, the question is will the united states take

military action, the answer i think is quite clear, it's no. if you now add the chemical weapons component and say it's clear he's used this, i think it's inevitable the president will have to take some action, whether it's targeting the military groups that unleash this terrible weapon or setting up a no-fly zone. i think if that red line has been crossed a second time very clearly, not ambiguously, i think american credibility is very much on the line, and will have an impact on what happens with us and iran and trying to persuade them not to go forward with a chemical weapons program. >> it was great to have you. some of the wise men of washington. we'll see if they're listening. >> great to be together, thank you. >> thank you, guys. we've got much more ahead on the show, including an nbc news exclusive. bradley manning says he wants to live as a woman. on the very same day, we're bringing you the newly released nixon tapes. one of my favorite authors will be here to discuss his take on modern day villains who wear the

black hat. first, today's politics planner. throughout the show, by the way, we have the budget on bus trip. we'll give you a look at some of these nixon tapes. the last ones that were released till those secret recordings were made public. so we've cherry picked the most interesting ones. includes conversations that president nixon had right after his first major address on watergate. announcing the resignations of his major advisers. nixon who apparently had a few drinks, spoke with halderman on the phone. >> it's a tough thing. would you agree? >> yes, sir, you've done it now and you've laid out your position, you've laid out your, taken your steps. >> interesting thing, you know, we haven't heard, the only cabinet officer that has called, and this is 50 minutes after the

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an update now on the vice president's son. nbc news has learned bo biden underwent a complicated biopsy of a mass in his brain. biden had the procedure in texas. his father says it was successful. the family is going back to delaware today and will await test rules. bo biden suffered some weakness and disorientation last week and a mild stroke of course several years ago. the vice president has canceled a couple of appearances at fund-raisers so he can be with his son. he's still scheduled to be with

the president some time tomorrow in scranton. we learned this morning that convicted army private bradley manning once to live out the rest of his life as a woman. manning was sentenced to 35 years in military prison in the big of tgest military leak. in an exclusive interview on "today," manning says he hopes fort leavenworth will provide hormone therapy. >> i think the ultimate goal is to be comfortable in her skin. >> do you fear for her safety? >> i don't. the reason why is everyone that's in a military prison is a first-time offender. these are soldiers who have done something wrong, have gone to prison, and are really just trying to to their time and then get out. >> the army has responded moments ago, saying it treats inmates equally, regardless of race, rank, ethnicity or sexual

orientation. the statement went on to say the army does not provide hormone therapy or sex reassignment surgery. up necxt, president obama grappling with trust issues amid more nsa revelations. first, which u.s. president never went to college but was chancellor of a university while serving as president? first person to tweet the correct answer to @chucktodd and @dailyrundown will get the on-air shout out. this is the night he announced the resignation of four of his closest aides. >> we're still behind you out here. i wanted you to know that you're in our prayers. >> how nice of you to say that. well, let me tell you this, we can be, each us has a different religion, you know. >> yeah. >> but damn it, ron, we have got

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ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. so what may have seemed in an effort to be transparent, the director of national intelligence in accordance with the obama administration released classified documents. in a new tumblr page that went live yesterday, it's clear that other the years the nsa has intercepted thousands of e-mails from americans who don't have anything to do with terrorism. painting the picture of an agency that began collecting over 50,000 e-mails of innocent americans in 2008 but didn't change their collection efforts and how they were implemented in 2011. one release from 2011 shows that judge john baits, the fisa court chief judge said, quote, the

volume and nature of the information it's been collecting is fundamentally different than what the court had been led to believe. after a major document dump, does this help or hurt the president as he tries to regain credibility? let's bring in former white house media director. i want to start with you. former administration official. you know, you've been working on some of these, nsa, trying to get some more disclosure, more sunshine on this. the administration every day, every time there's a new disclosure, feels like, they're correcting the record yet again and it looks like they haven't been coming clean with us before. >> well, it's death by a thousand cuts. it's important they get whatever else they need to get out as quickly as possible. >> you think there's more? >> there's clearly got to be more. the right approach is go ahead

and get everything out into the open they can. that's why the external review board, that is one of the things the organization i'm working with is trying to do. to ensure it is really independent and transparent. if you're just having a review by the same people caring out this activity, you're not going to get the trust to restore -- >> i've talked to some folks sympathetic to the president on this who believe this too. would think the nsa story, more than any other one, has hurt the president's credibility and that may explain more so than anything else why there's been a summer doldrum. >> i think it has the most potential to be disastrous. you'll see -- i understand why the white house is doing this now because members of congress come back in september and they will be all over the microphones. will say in regards to the drip, drip, drip that we've seen, we're waiting to see what they dumped 5:00 p.m. friday the day before labor day.

>> i look at this and think, okay, the fisa court showed some independence a little bit. at the same time, the judge, criticizing the nsa, admitted he let something go and the nsa lied to him. look at what we're finding out. 75% of e-mail traffic is getting swept up in this surveillance. the report says it's not malicious, it was just a mistake. >> and it's probably not. >> that's the answer, everyone says, what could go wrong? this is what could go wrong. the fact that all your e-mails are going to be under the apparatus. >> none of this happens without edward snowden. let's be realistic. do we really believe clapper would have released what he did today? the nsa would be deciding they need to be forthcoming? the president tried to say that's not true, they would have done this review. maybe they'd have done some of this but there's no way we'd be

seeing all this. >> i think at least chelsea manning had the courage to face judge. the big issue here is that, you know, you have not just the government having access to this but tens of thousands of private contractors, right? every american has 75% of their e-mail traffic now in the hands of contractors who may end up letting that fall into the wrong hands. >> that's the issue here. the government can say all they want. nobody intended for this to be malicious. the problem is it just takes one rogue guy to be malicious. >> it's amazing it didn't happen sooner. you do have all of these government contractors. >> this guy, he was looking for a way to bring attention. somebody could have been more malicious. >> there's no question. >> do you think there's going to be -- do you expect this to continue to be left/right could

ligs coalition with their hands? >> i hope that both the left and right understand this is a huge threat and they hold the president's feet to the fire on this issue. >> there is sort of -- it's basically a classic establishment versus the populous. it's one of those classic cases. you guys are going to be coming back. up next, a deep dive into the power of pacs. later, author and "new york times" ethicist chuck clausterman, he'll be here. another cut from the nixon tapes. here's then rnc chairman george herbert walker bush calling the president about his speech right after watergate, about watergate. >> the thing that burns me up is the feeling that you had and that came through. i think the people understand. >> the folks may understand it. if folks didn't understand the speech -- the commentators didn't. the commentators didn't understand cambodia but the

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in today's deep dive, big traditional political parties are dead and pacs are leading the new world order. a wide variety of political action committees are all around these days. it allows candidates to basically be their own one-man or one-woman political party. recruiting their own like-minded candidates. lawmakers don't have to rely on a national campaign committee or even the leadership in their own party. the way pacs and the rules have changed, they've changed the game completely on messaging and on money. letting lawmakers skirt finance laws in ways that predecessors never even dreamed of. ted cruz waited lessen this a week after being elected to the senate to form his leadership pa pac. fellow freshman heidi line camp

all formed senate pacs. in fact, as of this morning, maine's new senator angus king is the only first-run senator who does not have a leadership pack. a handful of junior lawmakers opened pacs even before they won their seats. so far, using leadership pacs to give them a fund-raising edge. they're all just a few of the most noteworthy names. the number of leadership pacs have already quadrupled since 1998. it's another way to collect cash. lots of cash. donors can donate another $5,000 to the same lawmaker and just send it to the leadership pac. here's another advantage. regular pacs can only solicit contributions from people or

groups connected to their organizations like labor unions. leadership pacs can ask for donations from anyone, including lobbyists. these pacs bring in big bucks. according to the center for responsible politics, spent over $40 million over the last election cycle. the rules for spending all of that money are relatively loose. we haven't even gotten to the super pac issue which does allow them to have money spent on their own behalf. he's former chairman of the federal election commission and expert on fund-raising. the leadership pac phenomenon has been around. but it really was usually only used by people in leadership. to, you know, help give out more money. the reason i wanted to spotlight

this, i don't understand what's the part of the democratic party and republican party anymore when every politician can do it themselves. >> the parties, it's been a challenge the last ten years. it's been a very difficult process. for the political parties. they've hung in there. their fund-raising efforts, they've done the best job possible under the circumstances. i think what we're seeing, more and more now, if you want to move up in congress, you want to be the ranking member, you've got to give money to your colleagues to move up. leadership pacs are a key vehicle. >> it's how you won a committee -- >> it's a key ingredient. your knowledge of the subject matter is important. but also helping your colleagues. >> elizabeth warren or ted cruz now. you want to get your like-minded folks. then you form a super pac. maybe during an election year. the super pac does allow you to -- the candidate themselves can raise money for that super

pac from big donors. that money can be spent on limited amounts. >> made clear that members of congress can raise money. hard dollar funds only. for super pacs. the super pacs have to spend money independent of that candidate. the contribution limit, $2,600 per election, relatively low. $5,000 per year can be given to the leadership pac. that means $30,000 over a six-year period. >> yet for that same cycle, you can only give $5,200 both primary and general for the two. what's that limit again? >> no limit at all, which is the best limit possible. >> at this point, you have the limited amount of regulating you can do. what would you want to see?

>> the law was passed in 2002. a lot of interesting proposals there. it was a major piece of legislation. but with the one area that both the democrats and republicans agreed on in that legislation, don't touch leadership pacs. there was a discussion of that. that just was not feasible politically. >> they were not going to get the votes. >> that's right. i don't see, chuck, any change in that political environment up on capitol hill. particularly when you need a lot of money to be able to move up in congress to these chairs and ranking member positions. >> let's talk about the unintended consequences here, right. which is if you were an independent actor now essentially, a political actor, your own political party, you don't need the rnc, the dnc, as much anymore. if they don't help you, you've got your own ways of doing it in ways that people never imagined. if it weakens the political parties, it makes the ability to

govern even harder. >> i think there's been assessment about the rise of outside interest groups, whether it be superpacs, 501-c organizations. that's a direct result of the legislation. a lot of people not really thrilled with that. political parties have to get to 50% plus one. they're being outgunned right now in the national fund-raising arms race. >> mccain/feingold, the unintended consequences have been the rise of all this. is the law, in hindsight, a failure? >> i think it's been a struggle. i think a lot of people really disappointed with the legislation. i think, chuck, as time goes on, they'll be an assessment about new ways to approach these issues. and i think the experience we're going through now, leadership pacs, super pac, will be part of that. >> transparency. shine the light all the time. thank you for sharing your views. >> thank you so much. up next, not one chuck but two. pop culture critic and "new york

times" ethicist chuck clausterman will be here next. first, the white house soup of the day. president's in buffalo. so those left behind are eating el paso chicken and rice. as for our next nixon shot, president nixon is not mentioned in his new book about villains. we heard nixon use profanity and even prejudiced language in previously released recordings and these are no different. here he is discussing judicial nominations with his then chief of staff. clients are always learning more

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too tasty. [ both laugh ] [ male announcer ] introducing progresso's new creamy alfredo soup. inspired by perfection. so what do andrew dice clay, ocht j. simpson, bill clinton, the eagles all have in common? each figured at some point or another, we'll get to the eagles thing in a moment. examines what it means to be villainous. and why america loves to hate the anti-hero. he says, grappling with villains real and imagined. a villain is the person who knows the most and cares the least. he is also the ethicist for "the new york times" magazine. i'm sure a lot of folks read that as well.

how are you, sir? >> good, how are you doing? >> i'm always a little biased to a guy named chuck. >> chuck lorre or something -- >> absolutely. what's interesting, i'm going to make the politics first. you threw in bill clinton. we've been doing nixon. the original modern day villain for people who are still alive today. you made an interesting observation in the book about why bill clinton survived his scandal and why richard nixon didn't. >> when i was initially doing this book, i actually was intending to write about nixon. seemed like a figure, an important person to talk about. so i'm reading all these books, watching these documents about nixon. i was born in 1972. if i write about this, i'm not really reacting to anything except other people's -- >> you wanted to write about people that you understood -- >> i tried to be skeptical about the way information is gathered

and presented. then this is all i'm getting. i'm not getting anything firsthand. the clinton thing, you know, the lewinsky scandal, i really remember that. i was in newspaper when that happened. i thought it was just kind of a complicated five-sided problem. and then as time has passed, our perception of that has shifted. you know, like at the democratic national convention, i remember reading, it said he had a 60% approval rate with women. >> how did that happen? >> yeah, it's like in some ways, it doesn't seem out of step. i think the consensus is when the clinton administration is sort of re-examined now, he's seen as a mostly positive figure. except for, you know, the most partisan people on the right. it was like, okay, now, in the lewinsky scandal, who was the villain here? it seems like it should be clinton. seems like there's no way around it. >> he's the one who cheated on

his wife. he's the one who did all these things. >> if you start listing all these things. you start making a list of the things they did that are ethically questionable or morally wrong, however you want to look at it. obviously clinton has the longest list. it seep seems as though he is person removed from that situation with the least damage. >> so he doesn't wear the black hat? you conclude that he doesn't it? >> seems to have fashioned it into a different hat. doesn't seem as though he ended up being penalized for something that even the people who support him would say is objectively wrong in a vacuum. >> but you also say you thought just simple -- better looks for clinton allowed him to survive. that you wondered, is that what hurt nixon? again, you were born the same year i was born. he was president when we were born but we don't know him. >> it's a problematic thing. we all know that we have like a

superficial looks-based society. we accept that and then try to put it aside. let's not overemphasize its impo port. when you look at modern presidential elections, the way he appears in public, i sometimes have kind of an uncomfortable feeling that for the rest of my life, elections are basically going to be won by the candidate who looks better in public. when you look at a guy like clinton, of course you can make the argument, he got a pass because he's a man and there's a double standard and there's truth in that. also, he was a good looking man. it is interesting to imagine what happens in like a presidential sex scandal if n t nixon is the guy. >> different story. i think we're seeing it in san diego. bob fill hner is a creepy looki guy. anthony weiner kind of creepy looking. they are struggling to survive. maybe i'm jumping too far. >> the weiner thing is -- i

think that, you know, it's you have these two things. you have the one side of it where here's this guy who's done -- sent pictures of his penis to random women. yet there's also something weirder in the fact in the wake of this, he's like, you know who should make decisions, me, like, i'm still the best person. what's actually crazier? the act or the response to the act? which is of course people are going to be cool with it. >> the moment probably in our pop culture lifetimes. the golden family suddenly had the rights to it. they were able to get it back in manipulation. they were able to make it seem

like i did it. this book disappeared, but i find it to be just -- i was sort of shocked by what the book actually was. i had assumed -- >> remember, this is o.j.'s work. that one point is what you decided. >> well, you get the book and it says if i did it. i thought it would be an argument saying i'm going to prove i didn't commit this murder by saying how an intelligent person would commit this murder when, in fact, it's just a memoir of his relationship, one paragraph that says, okay, now this next part's hypothetical and then seemingly a description of how he committed the murders and jumps right back into the book. and i think this is like an underrated cultural document. . i can't think of many corollaries we have of this. >> nothing. i've got to stop here. we could go on forever. the whole eagles thing. we're all born knowing the lyrics to the eagles but we all claim we don't like the band. i don't know why they provide hard copies anymore. our trivia answers, fillmore,

the nation's third president and received no formal schooling but was the founder and chancellor of the university of buffalo and that's where president obama is speaking today. congratulations to today's winner. we'll be right back. [ whisperin] uh! i had a nightmare! the house caught fire and we were out on the streets. [ whispering ] shhh. it's only a dream. and we have home insurance. but if we made a claim, our rate would go up... [ whispering ] shhh. you did it right. you have allstate claim rate guard so your rates won't go up just because of a claim. [ whispering ] are we still in a dream? no, you're in an allstate commercial. so get allstate home insurance with claim rate guard... [ whispering ] goodnight. there are so many people in our bedroom. [ dennis ] talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rings ] ...and let the good life in.

president obama's on his way to upstate new york right now where he'll be pushing his proposal to lower college costs. let's bring back our gaggle. luis, again, i'll start with you. he's pushed this issue of college costs and he's not asking congress for money. he's trying to shine a spotlight on it. but it seems he is right to point out this problem. but the problem is quote, unquote, us in society we keep rewarding the expensive institutions, don't we? >> it's true. and it's a terrible situation. colleges getting more and more expensive even as we see more and more jobs being created in

this economy are going to require a college education. you can't get by on a high school degree anymore. what's important here, too, is this is a good effort of trying to get bipartisanship. republican members of congress who support the type of innovation and competition. >> right. >> this is where -- >> and this is weird, you know, we had all these different pop culture books. one of the most popular one notes, why is it when, you know, colleges have gotten away with this issue, they keep raising their price and the higher their price the more applications they get. >> yeah, but listen to what president obama's going to be saying. he's going to be talking about making lending easier for students. this is going to, of course, flush the system. and i would agree with what luis said how you can't get by on a high school education anymore. we're missing the middle class, tradesman. we're focusing too much on college. >> issue of free money. i'm sorry, like the universities need to take some accountability

at how high the cost is. >> absolutely. and i actually see this as a pretty political move on the president's part. because obviously he was very popular with this crowd during both of his reelection -- >> some of this crowd is not happy with him. shameless plug, you get to go first. >> i'm going to shameless plug recess, which gets a bad wrap. it's a beautiful time of year. >> it's a great time to be in d.c. >> yes, shameless plug, my colleague welcomed their beautiful child last week. >> the national museum of natural history has an exhibition of the 50th anniversary of the march on washington. >> that's a good segue for me, that's it for this issue of "the daily rundown." msnbc's special coverage of the 50th anniversary of the march on washington. and don't miss a special edition of "rachel maddow" tonight 9:00

p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. coming up next, it's chris jansing. i'll see you tomorrow. our 4,000 television commercials. yep, there i am with flo. hoo-hoo! watch it! [chuckles] anyhoo, 3 million people switched to me last year, saving an average of $475. [sigh] it feels good to help people save... with great discounts like safe driver, multicar, and multipolicy. so call me today. you'll be glad you did. cannonbox! [splash!] iand we're talkingl time with maria about the walmart low price guarantee. you got your list? let's go. if you find a lower advertised price they'll match it at the register. really... yeah, in a "jif". you ready? what?! that's the walmart low price guarantee backed by ad match. bring in receipts from your local stores and see for yourself. still running in the morning? yeah. getting your vegetables every day? when i can. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. two full servings of vegetables

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listerine® whitening... power to your mouth. good morning, i'm chris jansing. right now, the president is on his way to buffalo, new york, to talk about education and the cost of college. as he tries to pivot back to the economy and the plight of the middle class, there are so many other issues looming large this morning. let's talk about the gun debate. we're hearing for the first time those 911 tapes from an incident at a georgia elementary school. police say michael brandon hill had nearly 500 rounds of ammunition when he fired shots outside the school. the bookkeeper there got him to surrender after 25 long minutes. >> he's on the ground now with his hands behind the back. don't come in shooting at anything. they can come in and i'll buzz them in. >> okay. >> hold on, sit there. i'm going to buzz them so you